CO2

00:00:03: Substance, stories about the

00:00:05: stuff that shapes our world.

00:00:08: It doesn't make sense to dream of something that is not possible to implement but it also makes no sense try and hide away then hope this will all not hit myself.

00:00:20: We

00:00:20: need really find a pragmatic way in between.

00:00:23: we have made it happen.

00:00:25: Sustainability isn´t only about risks And we need to make sure that the urgent is not always kind of stopping the important.

00:00:36: I can only do this.

00:00:38: like in any other company, We can only commit to environment and society if it's also economically successful.

00:00:46: so there are classic sustainability balancing environmental economic and societal topics bringing them

00:00:55: into balance.

00:00:56: I'm an urbanist primarily, and architect.

00:00:59: And so we designed the built environment... ...and whole context of life!

00:01:05: the framework in which life occurs.

00:01:08: And if we do a terrible job and have bad, demotivating architecture that is not supporting communication or collaboration... We're of course missing out!

00:01:18: So you know what?

00:01:18: We've got huge obligations – not only because clients come to trust us with hundreds million dollars for our big project but also because society expects from us….

00:01:30: We want leave this world in better situations.

00:01:45: I'm Joe Hansen, and this is Substance.

00:01:48: A podcast about the discoveries in innovations in chemistry and beyond helping us build a sustainable society for future.

00:01:56: In short we tell stories of stuff that shapes our world And at this episode We are talking about carbon dioxide.

00:02:05: It's one of gases having significant impact on global warming.

00:02:09: CO² has always been natural part earth atmosphere But in the last couple of decades, humans have been causing an ever-increasing release Of new carbon dioxide In an alarmingly short amount of time.

00:02:24: One big player Industry For example The chemical industry.

00:02:29: We are in a chemical industry Which means we're hard to abate So called Hard To Abate sector And that mean's we obviously A lot of CO₂ emissions in our company.

00:02:39: But we have set ambitious climate targets and one to achieve net zero by twenty fifty.

00:02:45: So when will look at that in more detail, We have said a near term target To reduce emissions By twenty five percent on the baseline year twenty eighteen towards twenty thirty.

00:02:58: This is Christoph Yickel The Vice President of Corporate Sustainability at BASF.

00:03:04: He's gonna tell us more about how BASF is trying to make the company business more sustainable and cut greenhouse gas emissions.

00:03:13: Before he starts, I wanna quickly explain a term for you that will come up during our conversation.

00:03:20: Fairbund is a German word that translates into something like network And at fairbund site it just

00:03:28: as a

00:03:28: network of many different factories working together.

00:03:33: Christoph has more details about how it works.

00:03:59: not

00:04:03: to waste any energy, save resources and reduce the company's carbon footprint.

00:04:09: There are essentially three ways that a company can do this.

00:04:12: The three major levers of our carbon management are A. Renewable energy so electricity and steam.

00:04:18: B. Alternative feedstocks basically bio-based and recycled based materials.

00:04:24: NC production processes to convert them into low-carbon applications, net zero technologies like heat pumps, carbon capture storage and so on.

00:04:33: If you've listened to our second episode where we talked about gasification You already know a lot about the Second Point.

00:04:40: Christoph mentions Replacing oil based raw materials with biobased and recycled materials.

00:04:47: So our products in the chemical industry are by and large out of carbon.

00:04:52: And as long as all raw material is fossil based then at the end of life, these materials be it in a wastewater treatment plant or be it an incineration they will be converted into CO₂.

00:05:05: And

00:05:06: to bring

00:05:06: those emissions down converting raw materials towards renewable raw materials for renewable carbon is quite powerful.

00:05:16: so it generates also our customers materials with significantly lower carbon footprint.

00:05:22: But obviously, you know this whole journey depends very much then in the very end on the market conditions.

00:05:29: On how much of these materials.

00:05:32: are people interested it?

00:05:34: So as long as we don't have the market pool or the willingness to pay by customers Then you know.

00:05:39: This is what is determining the speed.

00:05:41: so let's look at the other two sectors.

00:05:45: The easiest switch is one from fossil fuels to renewable energy sources.

00:05:50: BASF has already done that in a few locations, and Kristoff has some examples for us.

00:05:56: BASL's most modern fairbund site is the Chinese city of Shenzhen.

00:06:01: Right now this side is starting up.

00:06:04: It's the most modern site I know.

00:06:06: off Is likely the most state-of-the art chemical site globally In terms of this verbund integration.

00:06:13: And we have actually introduced wherever we could already kind of state-of-the art green technologies there.

00:06:20: And I give you two particular examples, one is we actually converted the electricity supply fully to a hundred percent renewable electricity supply from wind and solar energy.

00:06:33: That means that we are able to reduce overall emissions by about fifty per cent.

00:06:39: so this is huge contribution.

00:06:42: And then there we have one particular example, I like a lot.

00:06:46: This is tiny bit technical but nevertheless it's really cool.

00:06:50: so when you look at the steam tracker that is at the heart of this Sanjang Phabund Then this is full modern new steam tracker and using actually turbines That are driven by electricity So called e-drives.

00:07:07: So traditionally, you would basically fire them by natural gas and with that you will generate a lot of CO₂ emissions.

00:07:14: But basically by converting them into electrical compressors You basically reduce the CO₀ emissions off this cracker by twenty five percent.

00:07:24: so This is a big step forward And it makes the Sanjan site really I would say a role model in chemical manufacturing.

00:07:32: But while it's relatively easy to design a new fairground site with all of the latest technologies, It doesn't mean that you can upgrade older sites too.

00:07:42: In US for example and our Freeport site we started project back last year where will bring in all externally sourced energy as one hundred percent renewable energies.

00:07:56: so we partnered company called Exelio And they build up a solar park coupled with energy storage.

00:08:04: They deliver, I think round about forty to fifty megawatt hours... ...to the Freeport site.

00:08:09: so this is really nice conversion from you know fossil energy.. ..to renewable energy.

00:08:14: and maybe zooming in here in Lüblichshaven our headquarters are largest for Bundside that we operate.

00:08:21: We operate your two steam crackers.

00:08:24: We are now building up a heat pump.

00:08:27: And what does the heat pump do?

00:08:29: It takes off-heat of one steam cracker and it basically upgrades that heat with an aid from electrical power, so basically same principle as you might have in your garden if already there is heating your house.

00:08:45: The

00:08:45: green steam from the heatpump is mostly used to make chemical called formic acid And the soccer field-sized heat pump has lowered the CO₂ emissions from this process by up to ninety eight percent.

00:08:59: So what does a production of green everyday product look like in concrete terms?

00:09:05: We have collaboration with an outdoor specialist, it's German company called Faudi and they've been now marketing a bicycle backpack that is made for our Ultramid Zero PCF.

00:09:18: That is polyamide a functional material and it comes with zero PCF.

00:09:24: And in terms of the production, we use electricity from wind power.

00:09:28: We used basically renewable raw materials instead of fossil raw materials.

00:09:35: All this together results then into product that has significantly lower carbon footprint.

00:09:41: This example down to even a zero cradle to gate that zero carbon footprint.

00:09:47: The beauty of the whole thing is that this material is chemically identical to a material with higher fossil origin.

00:09:56: It's actually produced in the same process, and it's something I want to emphasize because in terms of transformation... ...it reduces the necessity for building up all these production infrastructure new.

00:10:12: which would be extremely costly and would also raise the cost of transformation, societal costs of transformation dramatically.

00:10:20: So we can actually utilize what we have and turn towards green in a step-by-step

00:10:26: manner.".

00:10:26: But investing in making products carbon neutral—in the end is business decision that has to be worth it!

00:10:34: The consumers need to pay slightly higher price for more sustainable product…and not always.

00:10:42: What we see is if the consumer has a choice, then we see many consumers still and that's absolutely natural choosing

00:10:50: cheaper product

00:10:52: because of lifestyle considerations.

00:10:55: Because also what they have in their wallet and what it possible for them.

00:11:00: so there will be always choices by consumers And I believe only small portion of the consumers would choose freely the more sustainable product because it's more expensive.

00:11:13: And these are basically those actually who also have enough money to afford that, but they will not pull the whole transformation globally—that is not possible!

00:11:23: We all have to do this.

00:11:25: so I believe we need an incentivizing scheme... ...to make sure people like

00:11:30: that.".

00:11:31: Kristoff Juekels' entire job revolves around making a company more sustainable… But his mission doesn't end after he closes his laptop every day.

00:11:41: He's made sustainability an ambition for his personal life as well.

00:11:45: Since three years, we have solar panels on the roof and it is my personal commitment to basically not use gas during my commute.

00:11:54: so I'm still having a plug-in hybrid.

00:11:56: So i am NOT yet on full electric vehicle but my plug in hybrid has one hundred kilometers A range, and that is fully OK for my commute.

00:12:04: So I have twenty kilometers' commutes so this works fine And i can always recharge at home and keep it basically fully solar powered.

00:12:13: This was my contribution to trying balance out some of the emissions that are driven by my job.

00:12:20: What Kristoff's doing in his private life Is something My second guest would fully endorse.

00:12:26: The electric car has many, many advantages.

00:12:28: It's got a bad image out of many reasons.

00:12:30: there have been long discussions about the benefits for an electric car but some people prefer their combustion engine.

00:12:37: I'm not forcing anybody to buy an electric cars.

00:12:42: it will happen anyway.

00:12:43: smooth transition towards electric cars.

00:12:45: we see around twenty-five percent in Germany are now electric cars and i tell you five years is going to be fifty percent.

00:12:54: My name is Stefan Lehmann.

00:12:56: I am a chair professor at the University of Nevada in the United States and Professor at Keio University, Tokyo Japan.

00:13:04: I'm an architect and urban designer with great passion and obsession

00:13:10: for cities

00:13:11: And how we can turn cities to be more resourceful.

00:13:14: transform them into be also joyous fun but Also take care off their resource consumption and waste generation.

00:13:22: Stefan also strongly believes in using incentives to motivate people to change their behavior.

00:13:28: Behavior

00:13:29: changes like asking somebody give up smoking, this is a long-lasting transformation.

00:13:35: you kind of give up smoke for two weeks and then go back.

00:13:40: that doesn't make sense.

00:13:41: so it's longer lasting behaviour.

00:13:43: change the hardest part of transformation sustainability.

00:13:47: because we need to offer incentives not coercion, but incentives and make it easy for people that they will want to change.

00:13:56: They want to transform towards a more sustainable lifestyle by their own wish.

00:14:03: because we are three countries of

00:14:04: course.".

00:14:05: Stefan has his own research institute called the Urban Futures Lab.

00:14:10: For thirty years he's been conducting research there trying figure out in which ways urban designers can improve livability and sustainability of cities.

00:14:22: And because that's only half the picture, he is trying to combine this with lowering resource consumption carbon emissions and waste generation too.

00:14:32: In other words He wants design an urban environment That at same time more resilient To environmental challenges we are facing As well as healthier for its residents to live in

00:14:43: The wellbeing Of the residence At our heart.

00:14:48: In other words, the goal is to create healthier urban settlements with less

00:14:54: sprawl

00:14:55: and reduced car dependency where you don't depend all of your time on a car.

00:15:00: Cities that are mixed-use walkable and pedestrian friendly but also offer easy access to green spaces we want to go.

00:15:09: gardens in public parks provide clean air.

00:15:13: lower levels pollution very important.

00:15:16: Before we dive deeper into the changes Stefan wants to bring about, let's take a quick look at what data says on how sustainable city life really is.

00:15:26: Because cities can actually be very climate friendly!

00:15:30: Dense compact cities often have lower carbon footprint than sprawling suburban or rural areas.

00:15:38: That because in cities more people share same infrastructure And short distances between homes and essential services like schools, healthcare providers & businesses means people are less dependent on private cars.

00:15:54: Unfortunately many cities especially in North America Are not very dense but rather consist of sprawling neighborhoods.

00:16:04: Stefan told me some very interesting numbers.

00:16:08: In the United States we have an estimated two billion parking spaces for roughly two hundred and fifty million cars.

00:16:17: That's eight parking spaces for every registered car or five percent of all urban land just being used for parking space.

00:16:28: combined that with the extensive road network, you get an idea about how much our surface area is covered in asphalt And this leads to its own problem The Urban Heat Island Effect

00:16:42: Due to the concentration of buildings and roads, cars or paved surfaces that all absorb and retain heat.

00:16:49: You have what is called an urban heat island which leads into increased demand for air conditioning and cooling systems.

00:16:55: you need to cool down the building by generating additional greenhouse gas emissions Which isn't good.

00:17:01: The Urban Heat Island effect is a reason why cities are on average one-to-four degrees Celsius warmer than surrounding rural areas.

00:17:12: In an already warming world, that puts a lot of stress on the city dwellers.

00:17:18: They're suffering from intense heat especially in summer months and areas where air conditioning isn't widely adopted.

00:17:27: So what can city planners do to change their cities for better?

00:17:32: To make them healthier more resilient natural disasters And more joyous living?

00:17:40: Stefan has many ideas and those of a few cities that have already adopted them.

00:17:45: For example, the South Asian metropolis of Singapore.

00:17:49: Singapore is often referred to as The Garden City – the city in the garden!

00:17:53: And it has embraced biophilic design with green infrastructure.

00:17:58: What does this mean?

00:18:00: It means there's strategy for combating urban heat through vertical gardens green roofs, rooftop gardens, greenery extensive green infrastructure.

00:18:10: The city cools the buildings and mitigates the urban heat island effect in a very effective way and reduces energy demand for air conditioning.

00:18:18: you know more broadly integrating those kind of nature-based solutions involves measures such as planting trees with cities embrace one million trees, planting program for instance or many cities have at the moment a program like this.

00:18:34: Creating green roofs restore urban landscapes to cooler cities and manage stormwater and improve overall environmental

00:18:40: performance.".

00:18:41: Another outstanding example that Stefan mentioned is Adelaide in South Australia.

00:18:47: In Adelaid they're generating more than seventy percent of their electricity from renewables mostly solar power.

00:18:54: And...that's not everything.

00:18:56: It has also taking targeted action to address urban heat, including what they have invented.

00:19:02: There are heat-reflective coatings on roads that use white asphalt and concrete for sidewalks... ...and heat reflecting roof surfaces that bounce back the solar gain into the sky so the building doesn't heat up too much.

00:19:20: it doesn't need to cool down all this heat load.

00:19:24: Planting more trees and using reflective coating on the roads are two great ways to reduce the temperature of inner cities.

00:19:32: But how can we get people to switch to sustainable modes of transportation?

00:19:38: That requires a substantial behavioral change, And Stefan believes that intelligent design Can help us achieve this change.

00:19:48: in Copenhagen more than fifty-five percent of all daily trips are undertaken by bicycle.

00:19:53: And you know, Copenhagen has a lot of rain and snow in winter?

00:19:56: People still cycling!

00:19:58: So the point is to make it safe and pleasant that the cyclists feel safe too have proper designed cycling passes.

00:20:05: they can't be too narrow... ...and their way separated from cars and trucks or buses.

00:20:10: Copenhagen isn't only city making biking more appealing but providing the right infrastructure.

00:20:16: Kristoff Jekyll remembers a recent visit to Vancouver on the west coast of Canada, where he was impressed by this cycling infrastructure that he saw.

00:20:25: Last summer we were making our trip over to Canada and going up north but we stayed also couple days in vancouver.

00:20:34: It's my first visit to VanCouver.

00:20:36: it is amazing.

00:20:37: I saw bike lanes.

00:20:39: We actually took an e-bike so you can rent one.

00:20:43: We drove around with Circle Stanley Park and all this.

00:20:46: It was amazing.

00:20:47: if the commutes are short enough walking or cycling to school The office of the grocery store becomes more feasible.

00:20:55: That's why Stefan Lehman says that cities with over one million inhabitants need to have more than One center, but is pretty much the opposite Of what you currently see in cities all over the world.

00:21:09: people Are wasting precious time and money just sit in rush hour traffic, but it doesn't have to be this way.

00:21:17: Cities with more than one center are showing us how this could

00:21:21: work.".

00:21:21: You had as always when you went.

00:21:23: London at some point grew together twenty-three different towns.

00:21:27: each was their own character.

00:21:28: you know Camden or Westminster or Hampstead.

00:21:31: they all have that different character.

00:21:33: Twenty three towns grew together to form the greater metropolitan London.

00:21:38: Now london is a bit lucky because of its history.

00:21:41: What Stefan says, it's not impossible to change already existing monocentric cities into polycentric ones.

00:21:51: He mentioned Paris and Melbourne as two very prominent examples.

00:21:55: who are striving for this polycentric design in urban planning?

00:22:00: The advantages he said is clear.

00:22:02: the key benefits of a polycentric mixed-use city include shorter commute times improved access more productivity and greater environmental sustainability also.

00:22:13: People are seeking a stronger sense of community, they want to belong together with like-minded people.

00:22:20: so our research shows that more compact walkable neighborhoods makes residents more likely to form connections across ages in socioeconomic backgrounds you know, rich and poor old-and young educated uneducated male female all living together fostering social cohesion.

00:22:40: And the richer urban life side by side as a good neighborhoods.

00:22:44: to achieve these polycentric walkable cities sprawling suburban neighborhoods in particular need to change.

00:22:51: it can gradually be redeveloped and defined densified into more compact mixed use.

00:22:59: walkable neighborhood, compact is important.

00:23:01: I'm not talking about over-densification you know?

00:23:05: I don't want to change a two story town into high rise towers or nonsense like that.

00:23:09: That's what we do.

00:23:10: Gentle step by step careful densification at this process of suburb and retrofitting increasingly seen as inevitable solution for the growing demand in affordable housing.

00:23:22: If cities wants a caterer they have to change their way.

00:23:26: the materials that they use for building less concrete, steel and aluminum.

00:23:35: More timber!

00:23:36: Timber is not only fast-regrowing but also it functions as a carbon sink.

00:23:40: The building becomes a carbon sync.

00:23:43: The more you build them more CO₂ You absorb And store in the timber building because It sequesters carbon dioxide during the tree's growth rather than emitting absorbs and stores and traps carbon inside the timber, thereby substantially reducing overall carbon footprint of a building in timber.

00:24:04: While not all buildings can be made from timber, Stefan sees a market share between fifteen-and twenty percent for timber construction.

00:24:13: The buildings would be lighter than conventional concrete structures which allows for smaller foundations And at end to buildings life cycle, timber components easily recycled which is a huge advantage over concrete.

00:24:28: We heard from two different people today that work in very different fields, but they share the same approach to bringing transformation about.

00:24:37: you need

00:24:38: incentives to nudge People In The Right Direction and these incentives don't necessarily have To Be Monetary.

00:24:45: They Can Also Come Into Form Of A Better Healthier Way of Living.

00:24:51: Stefan envisions a city that also contributes to its residents' well-being.

00:24:56: And what's better than having a quiet city, with very little air pollution?

00:25:02: That is good!

00:25:02: A lot of green spaces.

00:25:04: You know everybody should be close to the park Wherever you are... ...you shouldn't have more than five minute walk away from a park Or garden or community garden where you can meet others and look at trees green space and listen to the birds.

00:25:20: Again, if the city is very noisy, eighty percent of the noise in the City comes from traffic...from transport!

00:25:27: If you reduce this ...the city is quiet !

00:25:30: And you can sit at a park listening again to the bird singing.

00:25:33: How wonderful it's that!

00:25:36: The change he envisions —and the change Christoph Jekyll is trying move forward at BASF— will require all us to adopt some new habits.

00:25:46: The transformation might take time, but we can't afford to not get started.

00:26:15: way as people, but also our ways consumers.

00:26:19: So every time we go shopping and take decisions either in that way or another.

00:26:26: so I believe strongly this is really at the heart of transformation.

00:26:31: We need to understand it's a full responsibility for us all And

00:26:36: thats it!

00:26:37: For todays episode of Substance.

00:26:39: i hope you enjoyed It will come back next month.

00:26:43: when were talking about salt.

00:26:46: This has been Substance, stories about the stuff that shapes our world.

00:26:53: Substance is a podcast by BASF produced by Territory Agency in collaboration with Wakeword and me Joe Hansen Research and scripting by Daniel Sedbrook Claudia Doyle Hardy Röder And Joe Hanson.